So I'm watching this town hall...

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Let's assume all of those copy/paste bullet points from a conservative website obviously is all true.

Why then, if you go up to darn near ANY senior citizen on Medicare in this country, and you ask them if they want their Medicare taken away from them or changed--why is the answer almost 100% absolutely not?

If Medicare's that bad, wouldn't have Medicare gone the way of the dinosaur and the health insurance companies seen an opportunity to make money by offering policies to the elderly? And, by that token, wouldn't have the "compulsory" nature of it with the withholding of SS benefits already been taken on by the AARP in the courts and overturned?

That's the problem with any of these C/P bullet points...no one takes the time to question them and see if they make any common horse sense. And when someone does (like me), they're a biased liberal. WTF ever.

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I have no idea what the politics of the site is, but here is the link to it. And if your gonna bite you may want to disprove any or all of the points instead of just saying "that's just some conservative group trying to spread more lies."

17 Medicare Facts


As far as Chris Matthews and MSLSD is concerned you can't get any more one sided and misleading.

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Originally Posted by TheBeast

I have no idea what the politics of the site is, but here is the link to it. And if your gonna bite you may want to disprove any or all of the points instead of just saying "that's just some conservative group trying to spread more lies."

17 Medicare Facts


As far as Chris Matthews and MSLSD is concerned you can't get any more one sided and misleading.

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Head Chairman Martin Kellogg's GOP donation record since 2000: Martin Kellogg - $17,400 in Political Contributions for 2008. Norm Coleman? Michelle Bachmann? Freedom Club of America PAC? Speaking of Freedom Club--scroll to the bottom of this page: Freedom Club Federal Pac 2008 - Money, Politics, Committees, Elections in 2008. Completely unbiased contributions. No money at stake at all with any one particular party...where's the fargin *rolleyes* emoticon when I need it?

Twila Brase, the President of CCHC, is from what I can tell via a quick Google search that brought up her articles is anti-Medicare...well, anti-government anything to be honest...anti-stem cell research, and most importantly--anti-health care reform. She's all for the free market for insurance companies/coverage that's gotten our system in the mess it's in today. And she wants to deregulate things even further.

So yeah...no agenda to further via CCHC or any bullet points they want to post concerning Medicare at all. Completely unbiased. Need that darn *rolleyes* emoticon again.

All that being said--sorry, but CCHC is in fact "some conservative group trying to spread more lies". They're in deep & thick with them, tied in via money and agenda. And their followers are hardcore conservatives as well...as evidenced by these wall posts on CCHC's Facebook page: CCHC (Citizens' Council on Healthcare) | Facebook. So yeah--they're on the lookout for all citizens, as long as it fits a conservative agenda--you can jump right in! :D Oh, and notice the aynrand.org link on there that was supposed to help organize tea parties--no conservative slant there at all! Wonder if your pal Bob sent them that link via his sig line on here? It's fargin comical that you thought this organization was even halfway legit--you're smarter than that. Do a Google search next time and see who's pulling the puppet strings--b/c you just got played by a bunch of people with professional & money stakes deep in GOP/big corporation agendas. They don't give one single care to what happens to you--only that they get richer and more popular by whatever means necessary.

That's my point--there's plenty of these seemingly legit organizations out there backing the tea party protestors and town hall protestors with the blessing of GOP members in office and the financial backing of big insurance/pharmaceutical companies. I don't have time to trace them all back to the money, but rest assured...FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity aren't just a pretty name--they're out to destroy this debate that needs to happen on health care reform all for the price of donations from big insurance companies.

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Originally Posted by TheBeast

And these people aren't trying to secure their freedoms. For whatever reason they are very concerned and need more from their congressmen and senators than, "Read the bill, read the bill. What good is it to read a bill that will take two day and two lawyers to understand it?" Exactly dumbass that is why you read the bill and have two lawyers to understand it instead of just voting on it because your mesiah told you to.

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haha, only a conservative talking head is gonna compare what is going on with these PAC's and bias organizations with what our founding fathers did.

thats repulsive to compare TRUE american heroes to these people who fund lies and try to ruin meetings for no other reason than political aspects.

theres a MAJOR difference between fighting for taxation with representation and fighting to cause chaos.

when will some of you realize that these big companies are doing NOTHING for us.
they do not CARE AT ALL about us, the people most affected by health care and the lack of insurance.

im not saying i totally agree with everything the left has to say on this issue, but if you think that the current system is great, and nothing should be changed, you obviously have no intentions on learning the truth.
millions of people dont have health insurance, and die because they cannot afford to go to the doctor and pay OUTRAGEOUS medical bills.

i have no health insurance, and it plays a HUGE factor in my health care treatment. I will not go to the doctor at all, unless I absolutely have to, because its ridiculous the amount of debt I take on from ONE doctor's visit.

Now we are getting into the subject that really gets me going!

People say that they don't want to have some bureaucrat who doesn't know squat about medicine deciding what treatment they can and can't receive. Well I've got a new flash, you already do. I've got what most people would probably consider good insurance and was just turned down by my insurance company for treatments that my doctors really thinks I need. I saw him today and we talked about it, he was not happy with the insurance talking head who made that decision.

Now we are waiting to see if a minor surgery that my wife needs will be paid for, it's not a sure bet.

Then people say they don't want to pay for the medical care of others who they view as too lazy to work. News flash, you already do.

The medical industry and the insurance companies are completely and utterly out of friggin control. Cost are beyond ridiculous. All except a few very wealthy people are one catastrophic illness from bankruptcy.

I'm anything but a socialist, but the out of control greed in both the medical and insurance industries has brought this on. What these two groups have done independently and in unison to the economy of this country should be considered criminal.

I want to add that there are a lot of hard working people out there, some who make fairly decent money, who really can't afford health insurance. At one time I was one of them. We were making about 50k at the time, but insurance was simply too expenses with the other bills we had.

I have a friend who owns a small business, no insurance. People who have jobs that supply and pay for insurance or the majority of insurance coverage have a distorted view of what type of chunk buying a health insurance policy takes out of a persons income.

I am now self employed and I wouldn't have insurance now if my wife didn't have a the job that she does.

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Originally Posted by Gotch

Now we are getting into the subject that really gets me going!

People say that they don't want to have some bureaucrat who doesn't know squat about medicine deciding what treatment they can and can't receive. Well I've got a new flash, you already do. I've got what most people would probably consider good insurance and was just turned down by my insurance company for treatments that my doctors really thinks I need. I saw him today and we talked about it, he was not happy with the insurance talking head who made that decision.

Now we are waiting to see if a minor surgery that my wife needs will be paid for, it's not a sure bet.

Then people say they don't want to pay for the medical care of others who they view as too lazy to work. News flash, you already do.

The medical industry and the insurance companies are completely and utterly out of friggin control. Cost are beyond ridiculous. All except a few very wealthy people are one catastrophic illness from bankruptcy.

I'm anything but a socialist, but the out of control greed in both the medical and insurance industries has brought this on. What these two groups have done independently and in unison to the economy of this country should be considered criminal.

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thank you
people dont realize that if your job offers good health insurance, you are one of the extremely lucky ones.

the insurance companies dictate health care costs in this country now, and what that means is lower class to middle class people who dont have health insurance thru their jobs are really getting hung out to dry.

people really die every year because they cannot afford procedures to fix their illnesses. some medical places make you have insurance before they will even see you. thats sad.

its ridiculous that the most advanced nation this world has ever seen still has people dying because they cant afford their healthcare.

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Originally Posted by Gotch

^Good post from Cane

Here is Chris Matthews getting a bit over the top in an interview with the guy who had the gun. The guy is clearly rational and not a threat. I still don't think it was a good idea, but he kind of gets the best of Matthews here IMO. He seems better informed on the facts than Matthews and kind of shuts Matthews down as they go along.

YouTube - Chris Matthews Interviews Gun Carrying American from Obama Town Hall

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Matthews does that with everyone, he did the same thing with a dem earlier this week(might have been last week). The guy was stupid to bring it, even dumber to carry a sign like that with it. Matthews is probably more informed about politics than most who are even involved. Olbermann pretty much took them behind the shed, he's biased, but nowheres on the level of Rush...O'reilly isn't as bad as him either. Another one that a lot don't like is Maddow, she may be to the left, but she's INCREDIBLY smart...she isn't no wheres near as bad as she is made out to be.

What about the sign made it worse along with the gun?

"It is time to water the tree of liberty" -


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Jefferson


You're going to make a sign like that and pack a gun with you?